69- Dr Cristina Nostro- Demonstrating research independence

Dr Cristina Nostro is a Senior Scientist at the McEwen Stem Cell Institute at the University Health Network (UHN), a research hospital, as well as Associate Professor at the University of Toronto. She recalls challenges in demonstrating research independence.

Cristina started her research career not taking no for an answer. As an undergraduate student in Florence (Italy), she had hoped to access the Erasmus programme. There had been strong links between her university and the University of Manchester. However, the programme had been stopped. She managed to challenge this change and created an opportunity that enabled her to go to the University of Manchester. She was encouraged by a professor from Florence to reach out to one of his collaborators. This led her to work in a research group in her spare time and the summer while on her Erasmus exchange; it allowed her to discover what doing research was about.

After she finished her degree in Italy, she returned to the UK for a PhD at The University of Manchester. Her PhD then became a springboard for further research opportunities. She initially considered doing a Postdoc in Europe and was quickly offered a position.

This first Postdoc offer built her confidence that she could indeed obtain a Postdoc. It allowed her the time to take a breather and consider more carefully what type of Postdoc she may want to do to optimise her research direction. Cristina realised this career stage was a turning point between different career directions. She also had a job offer for a position in a pharmaceutical company. Her family would have probably liked to see her return home. This can feel like being pulled in many directions. Conversations with peers and mentors were critical in convincing her that finding the right space to take her expertise mattered.

The right space emerged in conversations with an academic she had met at a conference, followed by an interview and the courage to pester this academic to see a Postdoc opportunity manifests itself. Taking the first offer could have been easy, but having the patience to build a chance to be in the right space took persistence and self-belief.

Listening to our conversation will prompt your thinking:

• How may cutting ties with your PI be needed, even when you would prefer not to, to demonstrate your independence?
• How supportive PIs invite Postdocs to build ownership of new research directions?
• What’s our role in getting others with less privilege the opportunity to discover the world of research?

To read the whole blog post:
https://tesselledevelopment.com/research-lives-and-cultures/cristina-nostro

Transcript

Sandrine: 0:00

All right, let's get going. Good morning. Good afternoon. Good evening. Dear listeners. You are on the podcast research lives and cultures. And I have the pleasure to have with me today, all the way from Canada, Christina Nostro. Welcome on the show.

Cristina: 0:29

Thank you so much, Sandrine. Thanks for inviting me.

Sandrine: 0:32

So in the few minutes we had before we press a record we realized that Christina knows an academic based in Sheffield who I know very well. And we were discussing, you things being small world. And when we work in a research field, we often come across the same people. And it's very nice to have you on the show because at the moment I'm running this program called Daring Today with women in science, in stem cell science in Canada. So we've invited several academics to come and share some of their experiences in navigating the research environment. So it would be really lovely to start hearing, how it all started this career for you in science.

Cristina: 1:16

You know, it's very nice that we actually connected to the dots that way because, Dr. Ilario Bellantono, who's a professor at the University of Sheffield was the very first person who pushed me to there and gave me this the, the strength, you know, that little push that, you know, propelled me into my academic career. I'm, I will always be grateful to that. For her to her for that. how did it all started? I did my PhD at the University of Manchester many years ago. I got my PhD in 2004 and you know, towards the end of my PhD I was interested in the hematopoiesis and and the power of stem cells. I've always been interested in that, mostly adult stem cells, but towards the end of my PhD, I got to interact with scientists who were working with embryonic cells. stem cells and and learn more about the power of this type of cells and interviewed with Gordon Keller, who was a leading scientist, still is a leading scientist in the field and eventually got a position in his lab in New York working in the beginning at at the metopoiesis at early stages of mouse embryonic stem cell development. And then really focusing my work on pancreas and endoderm differentiation, which is something that I'm still working on.

Sandrine: 2:40

So I'm going to take some step back and kind of try to unpeel some of the layer of complexities the past. And one of the things that's is really interesting is, how people develop a sense that they want to do research because often we are not exposed to, what it is really to do research. And often it can be that, we do a summer placement or, in somebody's lab to actually get the first test of what it means to do research. Obviously, you're from Italy and you came to do a PhD in the UK. So How did this happen?

Cristina: 3:12

was doing my undergraduate degree in biology at the University of Florence in Italy. And at that time, which was the late nineties there was a program. I still, I think it's still, you know You know, accessible to this day is called Erasmus where you could spend six months or a full academic year in a different European university. And I was adamant that I wanted to go to the UK and I, I fought my way to make it happen to go to Manchester. It was you know, It was a very interesting situation because the University of Manchester was always connected with the University of Florence. But that particular year the connection or the Erasmus program with this connection was stopped. But I felt it was, you know, a wonderful opportunity. So I convinced my professor to reach out to, to the graduates. Department at Manchester and convince them that it was a good, you know, it was important for us to reopen the, the, the connection. And so I managed to go and just before leaving another professor the University of Florence told me that he was collaborating with the professor at the University of Manchester, Professor Christopher Potton, and told me, why don't you just, you know, go there and see if he has, you know, space for you to join as a volunteer. So you can, you know, get exposed to the, to the work that it does. And so I did, I knock at his door and he was so welcoming. He, you know, not only he accepted me in his lab. He connected me with a postdoc in his lab Dr. Jim Wilson. I work with Jim throughout the academic year. Whenever I had free time, I was in their lab and things went so well that in the summertime, they actually offered me to stay as a, you know, kind of technician. And so I stayed to the surprise of my parents were like, Oh, you're not coming back. So once I finished that full year, experience in Manchester and I was connected with a PhD student and postdocs in the lab of Chris Pott and I realized what it meant to do research. You know, when you study the university, you don't really appreciate what it is, the everyday life and being in the lab and seeing, you know how they design experiments the hypothesis that they, you know, the brainstorming behind, you know, I was really fascinated. And so when I went back to the university of Florence to finish my degree. I, I knew I wanted to do a PhD and I tried to, you know, see what the options were in Italy, but then I realized, you know, I have an opportunity to potentially go back to England. Once you know the system and you know, it works it was a little bit easier for me to navigate and I applied and I, and I got a position into the lab of Dr. Gerard Brady. that was the beginning.

Sandrine: 6:12

And it's true that this first exposure of actually you have undergraduate students who may spend a few weeks, you know, in labs, but in a way having spent many months. you know, kind of been around, been in that space, give you a sense that, okay, that I like that. I want to be part of this process of doing research. And the, the thing you said about no understanding the system, understanding, how to access funding. And often when you come from another country and you have no clue whatsoever of actually how to navigate that. And you know, having had a taste of being in that environment I'm sure was really important in being able to access, funding for a PhD. Yeah.

Cristina: 6:52

It's that, it's also for me at the time was also, you know, language, right? When I first moved to the UK, I can guarantee you my English was really bad. I think people these days are much better prepared than I was at the time, you know, the my English was terrible. So spending a year in England definitely helped. Understanding the funding, as you said, was crucial. I was also, So, you know, at the time funding for other Europeans was not very easy, but I, but I knew that I could reach out to the Italian government. There was the Center for National Research that funded some of my studies there, but to be honest with you, my parents at the time helped a lot. Yes.

Sandrine: 7:38

So, I can relate to many of your experiences because also having gone to the States to do my PhD my English was really terrible, not knowing the, system at all. When you're a foreigner in another country, sometimes having to bear some of the burden of the making a financial investment in your studies through parents and family and student loans.

Cristina: 7:59

Yes. I think it was true then. It's probably even more true these days in some of the Places where, you know, like, for example, in Toronto the cost of living is becoming, you know, really high which is you know, working against us in terms of diversity. You know, we are certainly limiting accessibilities and I think university and research institute have to make something, some, a little bit of a change to be able to reach out to underrepresented groups.

Sandrine: 8:32

That's a really big challenge for institution, it's almost like they have to make the decision that they want to invest in the workforce. Yeah. So take us next. the decision of, where to do your postdoc? Because again, that decision is critical in terms of the opportunity that it's that it affords later on. How did you go about getting a postdoc in New York?

Cristina: 8:58

know, it's interesting because when I was towards the end, I, I, I wasn't even considering the States in the beginning. you know, I was trying to stay in Europe and I interviewed in several places in France, for example, in Strasbourg and Paris, and there were fantastic opportunities. And then. It almost felt like it was, you know, I interviewed and I got an offer and then I felt like maybe I should interview more, you know, and I should see what else is out there. I always say this to my PhD students these days, not just to my PhD student, but anyone who comes to interview in my lab, this is your chance to choose this is your opportunity to explore, and meet, you know, other people and and get a sense of what's, what's out there. Right. And so, you know, right then I decided, okay, I'm just going to try and, and, and apply in other places. And I had met Gordon Keller at a conference in Manchester. So I wanted to, you know, take an opportunity to see if there was a chance to get into his lab. I interviewed in other labs that were working on stem cells, some adult stem cells, some embryonic stem cells. And when I visited his lab, I was you know, really inspired. was working on many different aspects using embryonic stem cells, you know, early differentiation. And the team was spectacular. He had lots of postdocs, you know, people coming from all over the world which made the environment also very exciting. So I, I really wanted to get an offer. I kind of pestered him for a while and eventually I got in.

Sandrine: 10:42

Sometimes, You know, when people are exploring the next step, there is this, idea of, I just need to get something or, the sort of scarcity mindset that, okay, well, if I have an offer, I have to accept it. And it's a really critical decision that we make. I suppose, you know, if you choose a postdoc and you don't like it, you can always go and get one somewhere else. But at the same time, the changing country, starting on a new project, these decisions are never taken lightly. So when you have offers, not taking them is, you know, is pretty brave, pretty daring, since we're using that term. What was it that gave you the confidence to really seek out beyond just the obvious of what you could get.

Cristina: 11:25

think it was again a lot of talking to peers, right? Because at the time you also, you know, you're young as you say, the pressure of having an offer, right? I also remember I had an offer from a pharmaceutical company in Italy. So there was this big push to go back to my country, you know, kind of secure job, right? But It was conversation with with your peers, with people senior, you know, with Dr. Belentono at the time. And and the, the realization that we are really at a turning point in our life at that stage, right. And, and, and finding the right space to do what you want to do was key. So to me, you know, finding the The good environment and a good mentor was, was important. And I found that in in New York, for sure. I probably would have found it in other places. It's just, you know, sometimes something clicked, right. But you're right. It wasn't easy, you know, like, you know, especially when you have offers, it wasn't easy. It also wasn't easy to justify to families, you know, some of this. But I think now they've seen it, right. They, they, you know, once I made that decision to, to cross the pond, they were very excited for me and super supportive. Yes.

Sandrine: 12:48

going from PhD to postdoc is this idea of, slowly building your research niche. So what was the logic of, okay, this is the area that I've worked during my PhD. These are the methodologies that I've used. How is this postdoc going to play a role in term of my progression? How do you pull the pieces together?

Cristina: 13:10

Yeah, you know, that's something that I certainly didn't start with that mindset. Maybe, you know, now there is more of a push. When I started in in, as, My postdoc studies, I was, you know, I was interested in, in the question, you know, that was, that was all the drive. and it was a very crowded space, I should tell you, like, because there were so many other postdocs that were working on similar aspects. So very early on, I had a conversation with with my supervisor saying, okay, you know, I have this, this is very interesting. Can I also work on something else in parallel to kind of define, you know, a little bit of a more separated area of work. And at that time, you know, so in parallel to my mesoderm and blood stories Gordon was involved in in a project with NIH. We were in New York at the time that was looking at pancreas development and beta cells development. This was very early days when we were not even making insulin producing cells. This was like, how do we, you know, take embryonic stem cells to to definitive endoderm. And, and there was a postdoc in Gordon's lab that I just learned how to do that. So we were really at the beginning and I started to look at pancreatic development from the mouse embryo. And I was, you know, at the time, the only one in the lab looking at this and kind of like, you know, it stayed with me. I was also very lucky because then we moved to Toronto. I took this to the human embryonic stem cell side. And when I was ready to be independent, Gordon told me that I could take the whole pancreas project with me. So you need to have also that freedom in a way. Especially if you're staying in the same place as I did as a, as my former mentor to, to work on something that you would not be competing with your previous mentor. Right. but it's almost happened serendipitously, you know, maybe the only thing that I realized early on is that I needed to have something else, you know, like an, an alternative project that could be a little bit separate from what everybody else was doing.

Sandrine: 15:20

That's really interesting because from the many interviews that I've done with people over the years, assumption of the perception of what it's like to do research in the U S and people often say, well, I don't really want to go there because, it's too competitive and I don't want to be one postdoc among 20 or working on the same thing. So for you, decision of having sort of a side project that drove the direction of what came after, was this a way of not finding yourself like that in competition? Where did it go? Because you needed already almost have really a deep sense of confidence of your research ideas to propose a project like that.

Cristina: 16:01

Well, you know, I, to be fair, to be fair, I, I wasn't the one who proposed that. It was Gordon who said, I have this opportunity. You know, there's not much that we know about generating pancreatic lineages. Do you want to take this on? So that's how the conversation went. I kind of went to him saying, you know, can I do something else in parallel to, to diversify? I also want to you know, maybe make it clear. We were not in competition in the sense that we were all working. Everybody had a distinct project, but the mesoderm and the blood was like, you know, there was a lot of people working on this. Not necessarily on the same aspect, but on the same, you know, differentiation lineages. So it felt a little bit crowded in that sense. And you know, I, I guess, you know, maybe I had the vision to say, okay, there's, I need something else. I, I don't know how to explain it. It was also probably born out of a safety situation. If things don't work out with this, and then I'll have plan B to fall on.

Sandrine: 17:13

So from post doc to the position that you have now, what were the steps, moving, third time to another country?

Cristina: 17:22

Yeah, you know, it's it's not easy actually to to look for an academic position. I think it wasn't easy before. It's not easy now. I, I, I wanted to, so I started applying for academic jobs and you know, I can't, I, I don't even remember how many applications I sent out. And it's all about opportunities, right? It's uh, what you have to offer and what the people are looking for. I think in terms of expertise we were, you know, in a very good position because stem cell research was, you know, booming, still is. And so there was a lot of interest. But it was certainly a stressful time in my life. And you also have a lot of disappointment because there are many places where you apply and you don't get invited, right? So you start doubting yourself. And that's, you know, that was, that was the time that, you know, you start Thinking, okay, maybe I should look into other opportunities which I think, you know, would have been equally amazing. And I've and I've seen, you know, colleagues going into different job opportunities and have their, you know, very successful life for me. When I started interviewing I realized. more how important and interesting my work was to other people, right? Because sometimes you are in your lab, you do your own things and you do, you know, you think, you know, it's, It's going well. I'm enjoying it. Is it really relevant to the outside world? That was the time actually when I interviewed that I realized, you know, this is, you know, this is really interesting to other people. Not only is interesting, but there are people that are willing and interested in collaborating with me. So that kind of propelled a lot more energy. And and I, you know, I had several interviews that led to job offers. One in particular was, you know, amazing. And at the same time that I was kind of negotiating this opportunity Toronto opened up a position. I had at this time moved from New York to Toronto because of my boss was relocating to, to Toronto. And so when this opportunity opened in Toronto I felt, you know, I'm at this, I have to choose, like, do I leave the city where I live and the environment that I know and start fresh or, or I stay here and continue knowing that My mentor was, you know, happy to leave the pancreas project to me. So I decided to stay. You know, you'll never know what would have happened. I'm sure it would have been amazing if I had chosen path B you know, Sometimes I think about it, but you know, you cannot, you know, think too much of what if, right. You have to do the best with the choice that you made. And and so I'm really happy I stayed. Toronto is a fantastic place. The scientific environment is, is amazing and and the city is, it's wonderful.

Sandrine: 20:16

What do you think you know, in that post doc period that, you feel were really important in terms of positioning yourself to be able to be recruited? And I don't know. So the first position that you had in Toronto, was it you know, a a lectureship position. What was that first sort of next position?

Cristina: 20:35

It was immediately I became the equivalent of the assistant professor. I was an assistant professor at the university as a scientist in the Research Institute. I'm affiliated with the University of Toronto, but my position is with the University Health Network at the McEwen Stem Cell Institute. so I, I stepped right away from postdoc to PI essentially. And you know, what you know, set me up for that. I think in the end it was papers, you know, that's, that's, the current it was the fact that I was one of the few people in the world actually working with pancreatic differentiation to from human embryonic stem cells. So I had certainly certain skills, that were in high demand at the time. So I think, you know, you could say it's a combination of your publications, but also the expertise that you have.

Sandrine: 21:30

And the desire at the time for institution to be interested in that and the funding landscape and all that, of course. And so what was it like then to set up your lab? An element I'm interested, again, Is the, you know, the, having ex PI kind of worked in the same city as you depending on who the mentor is, you know, it can be really easy and actually an immense source of support, or it can be for some people challenging in term of finding the new territory of, you know, okay, that's my space. And now I'm doing things on my own. Might not be perfect, but that's the way going about it. How have you find that, that transition?

Cristina: 22:09

Yeah. You know, it's it's interesting cause I felt that staying in the same place I had to demonstrate to people even more that I was independent. And so I kind of cut, you know, a connection very early on with my mentor because I needed to demonstrate that I was doing things by myself. In a way, I think this is, you know, this is a requirement that is, you know, doesn't make any sense. If you ask me, I don't think it's something whether we should do, you know, we should be able to work together and build on each other's, you know, expertise and support each other. But in the environment, in the funding environment, if You know, it's almost, it was a request by your peers, you know, can you do this? Is it you doing this? Or is it your supervisors thinking behind? So it was, you know, I, I almost felt I had no choice. I had to do that. And, you know, You know, I did it. I was successful. I started to get funding on my own. And now, you know, I'm finally at a stage where I can reach back to him and say, Look, now we can collaborate, right? We have, we're working on, you know, alternative lineages and cells. And, you know, there are things that you do that are, you know, could be useful for improving, let's say the survival of the cells that we're making, or, you know, the differentiation. So we're now working together again, and it's really, you know, it's really exciting. And I mean, it's him, but it could have been anybody else. You know, I, I'm always reaching out to collaborators of people who I can learn from and where we can build something, you know, better. better together where, you know, you have a vision and you, you know, who can help me to go from A to Z. And so you reach out whether it's in Canada, next door, or it's all, you know, across, you know, Europe or Asia, you know, it doesn't matter where they are. I think this is the beauty of science.

Sandrine: 24:13

It's really kind of fascinating because it all stems from, how we define independence and the conception that we have and, how the founders articulate independence and often it's completely counterintuitive, but you're not the first person who I've heard, say that, thing of almost like needing to be seen. by others as independent and defining the independence and having to pull away from somebody that, we have a good working relationship with who can really support, but at the same time as a way of demonstrating and proving to the founders and to, the promotion panel and so on that we are on person and we are not just following the ideas of a previous PI. It's kind of very strange. Yeah.

Cristina: 25:02

Very strange thing. It's I find the same thing in the lab. You know, somehow you build an amazing team, for example, you know, you're growing up, you set up your lab, you have amazing postdocs, and at some point they have to leave. And you know, it sets you back. You know, you're bringing new people, you have new, you know, expertise, new New ideas as well, you know, when you bring new people, but this cycles of like, you know training really slows down the academic process I find. And so I am very lucky, very, very lucky because I have two staff on board in my team that are kind of like help me with continuity. But I realized that it's it's a privilege, right, that I have, that I've been able to sustain this and, you know, pay their salaries through the help of uh, philanthropy. Most of the time, a lot, you know, grants, but also, you know, the philanthropic support has been key, key to keep these people on And it's necessary, like if you're, if you're building a lab and you want to continue sustain, because after a while, you're no longer in the lab yourself to be that person training everybody. So I don't know whether there is a better way to do things, but I think, you know, things could be changed.

Sandrine: 26:24

And it's true that also a lot of postdocs don't necessarily want to do a PI role. And so we, we see a lot of postdocs leave the research environment because they don't want any more short term contract or there is no more funding and they have to leave. And so there is a lot of knowledge that is lost. And of course, yeah, there is always more PhD student turning up. The number of years that people have trained to have a certain of expertise it often feel like a massive loss. I agree.

Cristina: 26:52

I think there should be, you know, a different way of, of thinking of this and finding funds to support research associates within the lab if they want to stay and, you know but I don't know that this funds can come from grants you can't guarantee somebody's salary with that only. Yeah.

Sandrine: 27:10

So what, what has it been like setting up your group and, running your group and, you know, accessing funding? What, What's been the, most exciting part of that journey? Uh,

Cristina: 27:21

I think the most exciting is, you know, at some point you find yourself, you're, you're the boss, right? And you're, you know, every decision that you make for your lab is your own. And I enjoyed that, right? I enjoyed driving my own lab. Sometimes, you know, I certainly learned from my mistakes in the beginning. I was. trying to build the perfect team. There isn't such thing, right? You you have to identify your, you know, what you need and and, and, and try to move as fast as possible. I think I was a little bit slow in the beginning because I was trying to you know, I was trying too hard to recreate probably something similar to what my boss had but you know, as, as you're starting, you don't have that, it's the same exposure. So you know, I had to be a little bit more conscious of that. But yeah, I've I loved, you know, the every little steps from, you know, buying the equipment to the recruitment part, to training. I think the beginning, the, the first years were like, you know, particularly special because I was in the lab with everybody. I was still, you know, with everybody else in tissue culture, growing cells, running experiments. And and that's so much fun. Now I'm I'm mostly at my desk. You know, open door, everybody can come in. I'm happy to go and see, look at the cells and everything, but I'm no longer running experiments, unfortunately. But I think that part when you're setting up and you're, you know, you're trying to do everything, you know, from writing the grants to doing the experiment, it's very rewarding as well because you're teaching firsthand everybody else. And that's exciting.

Sandrine: 29:08

So you've been running your, your lab for a long time now, so the, next stage that you are in now is to actually building consortium and bringing, teams from across several institution and maybe internationally. So how did you get involved into this?

Cristina: 29:25

I think it's a, it's a natural evolution of our role, right? You know, once you become an expert in your own area you realize also that there are, you know, that you cannot answer certain questions by yourself. You cannot work in a silo and you need to reach out. I mean, collaboration has been important. Yeah. Always a key in all of the work that I've done from the very beginning. But I think it was, you know, building on large team and getting funding for large team was also a matter of opportunity because there were, you know, organization like Stem Cell Network that provided funds for large team grants Stem Cell Network, GDRF CIHR as well. And so you know, seeing that opportunity and realizing, okay, you know, this is something that we could do. And we should do if we want to really, you know, fulfill this vision of regenerative medicine. That's, that's how it started. You know, it was a matter of opportunity, but it's also the fact that you, you know, these days you can't do things. by yourself.

Sandrine: 30:31

When you reach out for a new collaborator, it's, it's one thing. you may have, another PI that you're working with, but when you're building this very large research consortium, the level of complexity and the buying of getting, another world institute of department. What do you feel that you're doing well to make this possible?

Cristina: 30:53

So I think first you need to identify your own gaps, you know, the gaps in the work, right? you know, the question that you're trying to address and, and then you identify the people with the skill sets, the expertise that are necessary for you to answer these questions. reaching out to them is the easy part, right? I think building the team and the group together, it's also a matter of like making sure that there is this necessity for like, you know, working together, but everybody somehow has its own independence within the group. I think that's key. And maybe, you know, I've been lucky in, in the sense that you know, regenerative medicine is such a multidisciplinary approach. You need such a multidisciplinary approach that overlap is somehow not so problematic in a sense, you know, we're generating cells, you know, you need to work, you know, we're generating cells, but generating a cell type, you know, whether it's a beta cells or a cardiomyocytes is not enough. You need to make sure that this cells is then integrated into an organism. And in most cases, you know, you're trying to replace a missing cells or a damaged cells, or it's a pathological condition. So we need to work. Not just, you know, with other scientists, but also clinician scientists that understand the pathology, endocrinologists in our case, transplant immunologists. And these are skill sets and expertise that I don't have. So we're reaching out to this individuals to, you know, answer much bigger questions. And working as a team, I think, I feel like I live a lot of freedom, you know, I'm, I'm not dictating anything, you know, I just happen to maybe lead some of this grant, but it's, it's all about sharing information. In fact, I think I take this as a learning opportunity, you know, You are for me and for my team, you're benefiting from other's expertise, not just their expertise, but also how they approach a certain problem or questions and how they deal with things. So you know, I've been lucky enough to work with many, many different groups and learn from them on, you know, how to, manage problems. Projects and how to address questions.

Sandrine: 33:18

What do you feel that's been the biggest insight in terms of getting, this big consortium to work well together? Because you're bringing people who have different expectations, who makes assumption, whose timeframes are different and, even with the best intentions, sometimes people get involved in large projects and realize, Oh, actually, I can deliver that or, things change within their own institutions. So what do you feel that you yourself do to I don't know, maintain momentum or really get the buying of people to really want to be involved. And particularly you said, working with clinicians who, you know, have got so much on their plate already. What do you feel that you've been able to do? That really helps the process.

Cristina: 34:02

you have to try and keep them excited. But most of the time I find these people are excited too. When you're identifying the people that you want to work with, of course, you look for the skill sets, but also, you know, these are people that I genuinely want to work with, that I'm excited to work with. There is a common goal, you know, in our cases, you know, type one diabetes, for example, And I have to say, you know, it also helps that a lot of the times the funding agency are also dictating, meetings, they're organizing meetings for us to join, not just our group, like, but other groups and that somehow. Keeps the momentum, right? Keeps the energy. You also want to share your data with your team when you have like new discoveries and you know, you need to keep the conversation open for sure.

Sandrine: 34:58

Over these, you know, these 10 years or so in running your group, what's been your biggest learning? Because again, you know, you work with very different people and, you've got to learn to navigate, the politics of your institution. What do you feel has been really like, I don't know, really hard learning curve?

Cristina: 35:16

I think I'm, you know, I'm still learning is how to manage people. It's something that I think probably the, that's why I'm saying I'm still learning. It's something that I'm it's probably not my strongest skill. and, and maybe it's, it can be said of many scientists, but it's because we are trained to work. independently, but you know, like by herself for the longest time, you have your own project, possibly you're collaborating with another postdoc or a technician in the lab, but really it's like one or two people's, you know, job. And then all of a sudden you're catapulted into running a lab. And just to give you an idea, now I have, you know, I think eight people in the And and so everybody comes, you know, with different flavors and needs and different ideas. and sometimes it's, you know, it's especially as you grow your lab and you're no longer every day in, in, in the tissue culture with them, you might miss certain nuances. And so understanding people's needs And, and being able to be there for them it's I think it's key. So I, I now try to have, like, I have weekly meeting with my students and I have bi weekly meeting with my postdocs. I felt at some point I actually, you know, This was missed. We missed that especially around the COVID time. Also I was on maternity leave, so I took some time off and that got disrupted. So now I'm kind of reining everything back in and, and trying to make sure that, um, I'm there. I might not have all the questions. In fact, I don't have all the questions, but at least I can point people to the right group or scientists, collaborators that can help. Yeah, probably the biggest, you know, the biggest realization is that you can't do everything by yourself. And so you have to rely on other people to support myself and everybody in my lab. Yeah.

Sandrine: 37:18

And actually maybe this idea also of the, the maternity leave is an important one, because in most of the jobs, if you go on maternity leave or parental leave, somebody will come and cover your post. And obviously when you run a lab, it's likely that there are not many people who can actually cover. So how did you that

Cristina: 37:37

So I, of course, I, I, You know, being in Canada, I was also very lucky to have the opportunity and, you know, of course, I'm privileged enough because, you know, I, I could take the full year maternity, which is, you know, not something that everybody can do. But I also think I was able to do that because my lab was very established. And I have, as I said to you, I have two staff. I have a lab manager and a senior technician in the lab who have been with me for a long time. And my, the people that I had at the time were like senior postdoc and senior students. And so they could actually. Be independent during that time, mind you, you know, we would meet on zoom calls or phone calls if it was necessary. I was, you know, always available for them, but I wasn't doing anything else, of course, but just to give you an idea during my maternity leave, my one of my students, um. defended her Ph. D. So there was a lot of reading the thesis towards the end. Of course I had to do that. We're on revision with the paper, with the postdoc and so on. I was working on that revision. In a way, you know, the early days, because the baby sleeps so much I was actually able to do a lot of reading and writing. I don't think I could do it now if my baby was, my, she's a toddler now, she's not a baby anymore.

Sandrine: 39:05

Mm.

Cristina: 39:06

This is what she tells me. Yeah, now, now she would request so much attention, I couldn't be doing anything else. So, It wasn't easy, right? You know, you have to juggle a lot of things, but it was possible. But it was possible, I think, because I had, you know, people in an advanced stage of their career. And I think the beauty was that By me leaving the lab, I actually you know empowered them So a lot of my postdocs were actually took on a lot of my teaching. I don't have a lot of teaching, but I do teach occasionally. And so they were you know, happy to take that on board. And in fact, because of that, now some of them are running their own labs. Some of those courses independently by, you know, themself. And and so that was a nice I had also one, one postdoc of mine who started, you know, writing grants and and, you know, she's fantastic. It's, you know, she's obviously at an independent stage already. So I don't think I would have had. I would have given them the opportunity if I was there, you know, because, you know, it's something that I was doing, right? So certainly I had to start delegating and they took on that, you know, very successfully. So it was a win win.

Sandrine: 40:26

if you're reflecting on, some of the critical decisions that you've had to make, at different stages of your career, what's been your logic in the way that you've made decision because you're faced with, deciding to be on one committee or not deciding to collaborate with this person or not. What's been your, way or ways of doing it.

Cristina: 40:47

I'm typically very open, you know, I try to be, you know, connected to as many groups as possible if if it's feasible, right? Because you don't want to be committing to working with somebody and that then do not not deliver. So if we can, you know, I'll try to, Collaborate as much as possible. But now, you know, before I make that decision, I always connect with the people in my lab to make sure that first of all, there is the interest. Cause if you're lacking that things are not going to go anywhere. So making sure that there is that interest and then making sure that they have the time to do things. So if that. Is possible, then, you know, we move forward with with the collaboration in terms of committees. And as I mentioned before, I'm trying to be a little bit more mindful with my time because A lot of times you realize that you say yes to too many things. And and so I'm, I'm trying to be a little bit more mindful. But there are certain things that I will always be, you know, very supportive of. And it's usually commitment to, you know, the funding agency that are helping with your work whenever they need support, whether it's like showing the lab and showing what we do to patients or families that are interested in the, in this type of work, or whether it's like reviewing for their, you know for their funding opportunities. it's a calling that you have to answer, right? And I'm happy to do that.

Sandrine: 42:24

If you took a look back at, when you started in science what sort of advice will you give yourself to, ease the journey?

Cristina: 42:33

You know, I think I would say if you're, if you love research and you love this work don't be shy to reach out. I think at the beginning I was a little bit too I was shy. I, I never thought that, you know, a professor would take me serious if I wrote to them. But I realized that, you know, we shouldn't, you know, everybody is very helpful. You know, everybody's, you know, maybe they won't, they won't reply to you immediately because of they have a lot of, and, and their inbox, But at some point they'll, they'll get back to you and they'll be able to help because I find that we've all been there, right? And so we realize that what a difference it can make to have a little help, whether it's like spending some time in your lab or just listening to. what it is that you want to do. And I can give you a little bit of, you know, my advice, you know, or, you know, I'll share with you my, my path and you learn that it's not so different, right? That you may find yourself in the same situation. And You know, I never thought that I would be here. You know, I never thought that I had, I would have my own lab, but it's possible, you know, and it's and it's a very you know, powerful journey and, and very enriching.

Sandrine: 43:55

If there was one word that could summarize what's joy in research for you, what would you say?

Cristina: 44:02

discovery,

Sandrine: 44:03

Discovery. Discovery.

Cristina: 44:06

Yes, it's the, you know, finding you know, looking under the microscope and seeing something for the first time. I think I've heard this many times, but it never gets old, right? You have an hypothesis and you prove it. I mean, that's the most beautiful moment.

Sandrine: 44:22

That's wonderful. Thank you so, so much, Christina. Really a pleasure talking to you. And I wish you all the best continuing to run your lab as a parent and continuing, to make great things happen in your research area and in your side of the world.

Cristina: 44:38

Thank you so much, Sandrine.

Sandrine: 44:40

you. Thank you.